You are responsible for
knowing and following the rules.

MAIN | WELCOME| RELIGIONS | MOVEMENTS | HETERODOX | THEOLOGY | SECULAR | ISSUES | MINISTRY | LIFE STYLE | YOUTH | OTHER | DEBATES | ADMIN | PRIVATE | EVANGELICAL

Discussion Forums

WWW.CARM.ORG | REGISTER | RULES | PURPOSE | ABREV | RADIO | PODCASTS | MUSIC | STORE | SUPER  | FORUM'S AUTHORITY STRUCTURE | BIBLE
GATEWAY

Christian Discussion
Forums - CARM > CHURCHES-ORTHODOX/HETERODOX
> Seventh Day
Adventism

The Adventist Sabbath Paradox

Welcome, Tree of Life
©.
You last visited: 1 Week Ago at 09:47 PM

Your Notifications:
1

Home

Today's
Posts

Mark Forums
Read

My
Threads / Replies

Contacts

Social Groups

Who's
Online

User CP

Blogs

FAQ

Support
& Super Membership

Members List

Calendar

Arcade

New Posts

Search

Quick
Links

Chat Room [15]

Chat Room

Enter Chat
Room

Enter
Chat Room (Float)

15 User(s) in Chat Room

Who's
Chatting

Log
Out

Search Forums

Show
Threads   Show Posts

Tag Search

Advanced
Search

Search Blogs

Advanced
Search

Quick Links

Today's
Posts

Mark Forums
Read

Open
Contacts Popup

Networking

Contacts &
Friends

Social Groups

Pictures & Albums

User Control
Panel

Edit
Signature

Edit Your
Details

Edit
Options

Miscellaneous

Subscribed
Threads

Your Profile

Who's
Online

Your Notifications

Unread
Visitor Messages

0

Unapproved
Visitor Messages

0

Incoming
Friend Requests

1

Unread Picture
Comments

0

Picture Comments
Awaiting Approval

0

Go to Page...

Page 8 of 8

« First

<

4

5

6

7

8

Thread
Tools

Search
this Thread

Rate Thread

Display
Modes

12-01-2009

#1

Troubleshooter

Super Member

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 4,580

Reputation: 579

Another Question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life ©

The correct year of the crucifixion
is not "31 A.D.," it is 18 CE!

How do
you reconcile this with the death of Herod and the reign of
Tiberius?

__________________
- Jesus said, "In this world
you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John
16:33 -

Troubleshooter

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by Troubleshooter

Add
Troubleshooter to Your Contacts

12-01-2009

#2

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

That's a direct affirmation of the paradox.
Just as William Miller was required to adopt calendation that moved the
Sabbath so his understanding of prophecy would sync the current
denomination is required to either mutate it's traditional understanding
of Ellen White or dump Saturday as the Sabbath. This is a clear case of
"either - or", not both.

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-01-2009

#3

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Paradigm Shift Re the Chronology of the First
Centuries...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

How do you reconcile this with
the death of Herod and the reign of
Tiberius?

Dear Trouble
Shooter,

First of all, you need to understand that the fundamental
problem with conventional historical dating is nothing less than Ptolemy's
Almagest and Ptolemy's Canon of the Kings. Ptolemy's works are almost
universally used as the foundation for dating of ancient history. I have
no reason to doubt that Ptolemy was an excellent astronomer.
Unfortunately, I don't believe he was equally excellent as an historian or
as a chronologist or even that he had access to a reliable kinglist.
Additionally, you may recognize that many historians give reference to the
death of Caesar Augustus when asked about the fundamental anchor for
chronological and historical dating. However, as it turns out Augustus’
death is most likely itself based upon nothing but Ptolemy’s Canon of the
Kings.

The one key to the solution of this problem with Ptolemy is
found in another well recognized and known error, which error is that the
total solar eclipse referenced by Phlegon (which per Phlegon occurred in
the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad) was the March 19, 33 CE total solar
eclipse, which error probably was also based upon Ptolemy’s Canon. This
total solar eclipse was only visible from Antarctica and how likely do you
think it is that anyone reported and recorded that?!!! Yet, said total
solar eclipse is even currently being used as a key anchor for the Olympic
calendar. Fortunately, this problem can be recognized and corrected by
each one willing to do what the Bereans are known for having done, i.e.
per Acts 17:10-12. Of course, it is quite a tedious job to correct the
many thousands of incorrect dates found in conventional history. But
patience and perseverance makes perfect… Cf. Revelation
14:12!

Never forget, the one simple and very easy salvation of each
and all problems: Only one step at a time! But remember!... So long as no
steps in the right direction are being taken, there exist no salvation at
all! The key is to be pro-active and not to merely wait passively for
someone else to come and solve one's problems... That rarely
happens!

Please do as the Bereans did! Begin by studying, for
yourself, the fundamentals, that is, the beginning of each thing you are
really interested in really knowing anything of substance about! May I
suggest that you make it easy for yourself by carefully considering every
detail and link at this web page of mine:
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.wan.io/OTCh/PtolemysCanonAndAlmagestQuestioned.htm
(Notice: For the link to work you must remove any and all spaces in the
URL!)

That having been said, I will now give you the exact
answers to your two specific questions:

1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life (c) web site

Herod the Great died most likely
on Schebat 2, 8 BCE [January 14 or 15, 8 BCE.]

[From:
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.lan.io/NTCh/AdditionalDatedNTEventsRomanKingsOverJudea.htm#Her
odTheGreatsDeath

Notice: For the link to work you must
remove any and all spaces in the URL!]

2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life (c) web site

- Tiberius was appointed the
heir of Augustus on June 26, 1 BCE [Tammuz 4 or 5, 1 BCE].
-
Tiberius died on 4 Adar I/Adar II, 23 CE [after sunset March 15, 23
CE.]

[From:
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.lan.io/NTCh/TheRegnalYearsAndDatesOfRomanEmperors.htm

Notice: For the link to work you must remove any and all
spaces in the URL!]

But, again,
don’t take my word for it! Do as the Bereans
did!

Shalom,

Tree of Life ©

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-02-2009 at 12:21
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-02-2009

#4

Troubleshooter

Super Member

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 4,580

Reputation: 579

Really?

Jesus was condemned to death by Pontius
Pilate.

Pilate was Roman procurator of Judea during the years 26 AD
through 36 AD.

Either Jesus or Pontius must have had access to a
time machine then...
...to have Jesus crucified in 18CE.

__________________
- Jesus said, "In this world
you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John
16:33 -

Troubleshooter

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by Troubleshooter

Add
Troubleshooter to Your Contacts

12-02-2009

#5

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Tree of Life Time © Paradigm - re the Reign of Pontius
Pilate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Jesus was condemned to death by
Pontius Pilate.

Pilate was Roman procurator of Judea during
the years 26 AD through 36 AD.

Either Jesus or Pontius must
have had access to a time machine then...
...to have Jesus
crucified in 18CE.

Dear
Trouble Shooter,

Or so you’ve been taught by the powers that
be, haven’t you?

Once the one foundation stone or anchor for
conventional dating is shown to be amiss, everything else follows… You
can't change one and not the others. That's obvious, isn't it?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life (c) web site

Pilate began his appointment
within the year beginning in the fall of 11 CE and his appointment
ended with the death of Caesar Tiberius.

[From:
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.lan.io/NTCh/AdditionalDatedNTEventsRomanProcuratorOverJudea.ht
m#PontiusPilatesReign

Notice: For the link to work you must
remove any and all spaces in the URL!]

But no doubt, if you do have
a real interest in these issues you will learn to navigate my website on
your own and without me spoon feeding you, won’t you? When you do, please
notice that mine is a web site in progress, a rather large one. Some pages
needs updating. For instance, this last one is referencing the year as
beginning Tishri 1. The correct date for the beginning of the Scriptural
year, as used also by Josephus and the New Testament authors, has since
been discovered to be Tishri 22.

Shalom,

Tree of
Life ©

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-02-2009 at 02:13
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-02-2009

#6

Troubleshooter

Super Member

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 4,580

Reputation: 579

Beginning of the year question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life ©

Or so you’ve been taught by the
powers that be, haven’t you?

What are
the 'powers that be'?
Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy to
confuse historical dates?

Is some dark power messing with all our
heads or just yours?

Quote:

But no doubt, if you do have a real interest in these
issues you will learn to navigate my website on your own and without
me spoon feeding you, won’t you? When you do, please notice that
mine is a web site in progress, a rather large one. Some pages needs
updating. For instance, this last one is referencing the year as
beginning Tishri 1. The correct date for the beginning of the
Scriptural year, as used also by Josephus and the New Testament
authors, has since been discovered to be Tishri 22.

Exodus 12:1-2 "And the LORD spake unto
Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2 This month shall be
unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year
to you."

What month did YHVH here tell the boys was the first
month?

__________________
- Jesus said, "In this world
you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John
16:33 -

Last edited by Troubleshooter; 12-02-2009 at 04:48
AM..

Troubleshooter

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by Troubleshooter

Add
Troubleshooter to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#7

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Re "Beginning of the year question..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What are the 'powers that
be'?
Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy to confuse
historical dates?

Is some dark power messing with all our
heads or just yours?

Exodus 12:1-2 "And the LORD
spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2 This
month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the
first month of the year to you."

What month did YHVH here
tell the boys was the first
month?

Dear
Trouble Shooter,

What a joyous and blessed day! The one that
was. And the one that now is. Sunshine from a clear blue sky. No wind.
Cold. The ice being visibly laid over ever enlarging areas across our
beautiful lake, which lake is all along without the tiniest tendency to
wind or wave anywhere all day. Then seeing the sun setting at 3 PM being
immediately followed by a rising full moon at the opposite end of the sky.
A wonderful sense of wellbeing and warmth from my stomach area after our
vegan lunch consisting of whole grain spaghetti, crushed tomato sauce,
cabbage, and fresh-milled flaxseed. Being able to do manual labor on the
dock I am designing and building from scrap material that is being
provided as needed by our Great Lord, our Creator, our Savior, our Father
in Heaven. Then after all that, being able to sit down in a nice warm room
and communicate with friends with interests related to mine, that is you
my friend(s), and to such enjoying and most meaningful work as is being
laid before me from day to day and moment by moment by my Great God and
Guide through Life…

Thanks for being there Trouble Shooter! Thanks
for doing what you do in pursuing the truth, what ever it may be that God
lays before you!

* * * * * * *

“The powers
that be?”

Well, it's an expression I come across people using
every now and then. To me 'the powers that be' are whoever they are and
they do whatever they do. It may be you and me and each our contribution
to that which is what it is... It may be the handful of central bank
owners that basically own and controls the planet. It may be Satan and
each one among living beings that blindly choose to do his bidding while
thinking it’s either their own thoughts or thoughts acquired from reliable
human authorities while in reality it’s nothing but fiction or baseless
gossip that at best originated from some valuable and treasurable truth
before being little by little changed into something else... Or, at times
it may be an odd one standing up boldly for the truth of God in the face
of any and all opposition from friend or foe alike… It might even be a
butterfly winging its way from one flower to the next… It's any one and
anything using each their God-given powers for whatever they choose to do,
and whether for good or for bad, whether for things contructive or things
destructive to life, health, happiness, joy, wellbeing, and all that which
belong to the Kingdom of Heaven...

“A conspiracy to
confuse historical dates?”

Well, yes. That’s a well documented
fact of life. Certainly not widely published by the public media or by the
powers that be, but the published proof is there for each and everyone who
is willing to keep his or her eyes peeled when it is staring them in the
face…

“Is some dark power messing with all our heads or
just yours?”

All our heads. That is, to the extent that we
allow them to do so, and to the extent we are not willing to learn from
moment to moment whatever our Savior is desiring to teach us along our Way
towards ever more specific truths essential for our lives and being.

“Exodus 12:2… What month did YHVH here tell the boys
was the first month?”

Yes, indeed! That’s why most Karaites
believe that the Babylonian/Persian calendar beginning with Abib/Nisan 1
is the beginning of the Scriptural year. Some call that year the ‘sacred
year’ or the ‘ecclesiastical year’ in contradistinction to ‘the civil
year’ that supposedly begin with Tishri 1 and Rosh HaShanah.

I used
to believe and use stuff like that too, until I came across Exodus 23:16,
which clearly states that the end of the year is the Feast of Ingathering,
which is the same as the Feast of Tabernacles. Oh boy, was that an
inconvenient discovery for me, after all the work I’d done on chronology
over so many years. Having first of all to analyze to what extent anyone
had been using such a year, and then, once having discovered that it was
being used by both Old and New Testament authors as well as by Josephus, I
had to review and correct and revise all my prior work accordingly… In
fact, I have yet more work to do before being all done with that
one…

So yes, “beginning of months” is one thing, “beginning of the
year” is quite another… And yet, it only makes sense, very much sense.
Just like the Seventh-day Sabbath at the end of the week, and just like
the Seventh Sabbatical year at the end of a cycle of seven years, so also
the end of the year at the end of the seventh lunar moon… before at the
beginning of the cold and dark portion of the year that begins the year,
paralleling the cold and dark portion of the sunset to sunset day…

If you wish to dive a little deeper into the Scriptural
definitions for the beginning and end of the year you may study this
little article of mine, which documents my own studies touching on that
issue:
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.lan.io/IFoundMannah/EndOfTheYear.htm

Because,
you see, there is quite a bit more to it… And God isn’t finished with me
yet…

Have a blessed and peaceful day in the Lord’s
vineyard,

Tree of Life ©

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-03-2009 at 12:34
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#8

jaman

Forum Member

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Mexico #2

Posts: 436

Reputation: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life ©

What
a joyous and blessed day! The one that was. And the one that now is.
Sunshine from a clear blue sky. No wind. Cold. The ice being visibly
laid over ever enlarging areas across our beautiful lake, which lake
is all along without the tiniest tendency to wind or wave anywhere
all day. Then seeing the sun setting at 3 PM being immediately
followed by a rising full moon at the opposite end of the sky. A
wonderful sense of wellbeing and warmth from my stomach area after
our vegan lunch consisting of whole grain spaghetti, crushed tomato
sauce, cabbage, and fresh-milled flaxseed. Being able to do manual
labor on the dock I am designing and building from scrap material
that is being provided as needed by our Great Lord, our Creator, our
Savior, our Father in Heaven. Then after all that, being able to sit
down in a nice warm room and communicate with friends with interests
related to mine, that is you my friend(s), and to such enjoying and
most meaningful work as is being laid before me from day to day and
moment by moment by my Great God and Guide through
Life…

I
don't know where you are on this Planet, but I can paint a similar picture
to your own.
Last evening at 9.00pm, here in Southern Australia, the
image of a very large Orange Full Moon rising over a carm sea immediately
after the Sun had set, was truly inspiring.

All Praise to YHWH for
His mighty and wonderous Creation!

(Blue moon on the 31st Dec, once
again proving to us that our calendar is
wrong)

jaman

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by jaman

Add
jaman to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#9

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

"Blue moon on the 31st Dec..." ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaman

I don't know where you are on
this Planet, but I can paint a similar picture to your own.
Last
evening at 9.00pm, here in Southern Australia, the image of a very
large Orange Full Moon rising over a carm sea immediately after the
Sun had set, was truly inspiring.

All Praise to YHWH for His
mighty and wonderous Creation!

(Blue moon on the 31st Dec,
once again proving to us that our calendar is
wrong)

Thank you
Jaman,

Praise the Lord, him that made heaven, and earth, and
the sea, and the fountains of waters!

Considering that I am at
latitude 60 N, where the sun is setting at 3 PM at this wintry season, and
that you are in Southern Australia seeing the sun set at 9 PM, I get the
impression that you should be located about 60 S, but… upon looking at my
Google Earth I see that 60 S is about ¾ of the way south of the southern
coast of Tasmania towards Antarctica. I don’t understand that. Is this an
effect of Australian Daylight Savings Time or your position in the time
zone, or what? Just wondering…

At any rate, praise the name of the
Lord of Hosts!

Oooops, almost forgot... What's that "Blue moon
on the 31st Dec..." thing all about?

Shalom,

Tree of
Life ©

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#10

jaman

Forum Member

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Mexico #2

Posts: 436

Reputation: 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life ©

Thank
you Jaman,

Praise the Lord, him that made heaven, and
earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters!

Considering
that I am at latitude 60 N, where the sun is setting at 3 PM at this
wintry season, and that you are in Southern Australia seeing the sun
set at 9 PM, I get the impression that you should be located about
60 S, but… upon looking at my Google Earth I see that 60 S is about
¾ of the way south of the southern coast of Tasmania towards
Antarctica. I don’t understand that. Is this an effect of Australian
Daylight Savings Time or your position in the time zone, or what?
Just wondering…

At any rate, praise the name of the Lord of
Hosts!

Oooops, almost forgot... What's that "Blue moon on
the 31st Dec..." thing all about?

Shalom,

Tree
of Life ©

I
am at aprox 38 S and my Sunset time was probably closer to 8.40pm
(daylight saving time)with the moon rising from about 8.50pm onwards to be
exact, but you get the idea, it was spectacular last evening.

"Once
in a blue moon" is a term used to describe a rare occasion and it is
derived from the term 'blue moon' which occurs when you have two full
moons in a single calendar month, which according to my calendar will
occur this year on the 31st of December.

jaman

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by jaman

Add
jaman to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#11

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Thanks for adding light to a 'blue sky!'

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaman

I am at aprox 38 S and my Sunset
time was probably closer to 8.40pm (daylight saving time)with the
moon rising from about 8.50pm onwards to be exact, but you get the
idea, it was spectacular last evening.

"Once in a blue moon"
is a term used to describe a rare occasion and it is derived from
the term 'blue moon' which occurs when you have two full moons in a
single calendar month, which according to my calendar will occur
this year on the 31st of
December.

Thanks
Jaman,

It feels good to be enlightened by such as knows things
of value! I was familiar with the expression "once in a blue moon" as
referencing a rare event, but I had no idea as to the reality behind the
expression. Thanks again! Your insight surely makes that expression come
alive in a way that it never did to me before...

Thanks also for
clarifying your time and place. It feels much better being oriented x 3...
Less confusing!

- Sometimes though, I feel like - and realize that
- our planetary society is disoriented to time, place, and person relative
to all such as belong to our Creator and to the Kingdom of Heaven... Most
or all of it due to such as is fortold to us by Daniel:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel 7:25 KJV

And he [The Roman Catholic
Church and the powers that be] shall speak great words
against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most
High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.

[Bracket inserted
- and color emphasis (as in " 'blue moon'
and as in 'signed in blue ink' and 'blue laws...' And as the background color of the
Swedish flag as also found on a chief Roman-Catholic insignia! ") /
Tree of Life (c)]

Indeed, we are all
- or most of us - not much better off than the classical Alzheimer's
patients, are we?

...But it's time for me to go do some more
work on my dock that I lifted up above the waters that were mirroring the
first of two full moons in a Roman-Catholic calendar month... - while
hanging it up in cords extending as it were, out of heaven...

BTW,
re "cords out of heaven," did you ever read Ellen White's dream re the
'green cords' as found at {2T 594.1} at this link?:
whiteestate.org/search/search.asp

Peace over your family and
over your home,

Tree of Life (c)

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-03-2009 at 11:46
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-10-2009

#12

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

What specific date do you suggest the
passover fell on in A.D. 18. As in the month and day?

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-10-2009

#13

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Re "the passover... A.D. 18... month and day?"

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythons

What specific date do you suggest
the passover fell on in A.D. 18. As in the month and
day?

Dear
Pythons,

First a disclaimer:

I wish to
emphasize that I am not suggesting that anything of God, Yahweh Elohim,
the Creator of all, "fell... in[to] A.D...." any thing.

"A.D." is
a term possibly originated and/or claimed as property of the Roman
Catholic Church hierarchy, and I for one have no authority to transfer
what is not mine into that domain, nor do I wish to.

That having
been said, strictly speaking, and as reckoned astronomically, "A.D. 18"
etc. should be more or less concurrent with "18 CE," etc., which "CE"
denominator I prefer using.

Nothing I ever say, write, or do, is
ever intended to transfer any rights into the Roman Catholic Church or
unto her proprietors. My errors and my mistakes also remain mine, and mine
alone. I do the best I can to correct my own errors. I cannot shoulder any
responsibility for the use or abuse of that which is mine when used by
another...

Second, provided you accept my
terms:

Passover per Yeshua's reckoning: Day of Passover
= "after [the first] two days [of the week]” (Matthew 26:2 KJV)" = from
sunset "Monday night April 18" through sunset "Tuesday night April 19, 18
CE" ("Julian calendar") = the Third Day (of the week) Aviv/Nisan 13 (per
the official Jewish calendar then in use) = the Third Day (of the week)
Moon #1[/Aviv/Nisan] 14 (per Yeshua's reckoning and per the Scriptural
calendar.)

Passover per the official Jewish calendar then in
use: Day of Passover = "the preparation of the passover" (John 19:14
KJV) = from sunset "Tuesday night April 19" through sunset "Wednesday
night April 20, 18 CE" ("Julian calendar") = the Fourth Day (of the week)
Aviv/Nisan 14 (per the official Jewish calendar then in use) = the Fourth
Day (of the week) Moon #1[/Aviv/Nisan] 15 (per Yeshua's reckoning and per
the Scriptural calendar.)

* * * * * * * *

No doubt
you knew my answer already from my links (cf.
adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.lan.io/NTCh/TimingOfTheEventsOfThePaschalPesachWeek.htm
) provided elsewhere in the far distance, or didn't you? ;,)

I am
looking forwards to growing ever closer towards God's Kingdom and towards
giving my Creator credit to an ever more clear title unto all such as
pertain to "I, me and mine" while doing my best in standing up for the
truth in the face of your challenges, be they what they
may...

May we all live in peace with the truth as it really
is, and with one another, as we each and together do our best in
approaching our Creator on our way out of all that which is being
represented by the word 'Babylon,' as also portrayed by the statue in
Daniel Chapter 2,

Tree of Life (c)

PS. Allow me to
commend you on your choice of placement of this posted question of yours.
I find it interesting and very thoughtful indeed! Thank you for your
honest interest! - If I may thus presume?

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-10-2009 at 10:57
PM.. Reason: A major error of mine being corrected...

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-10-2009

#14

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

Ok, fair enough. I just wanted to do my own
calculations on it. Just pop it up after
ready.

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#15

Troubleshooter

Super Member

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 4,580

Reputation: 579

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree of Life ©

Passover per Yeshua's
reckoning: Day of Passover = "after [the first] two days [of the
week]” (Matthew 26:2 KJV)" = from sunset "Monday night April 18"
through sunset "Tuesday night April 19, 18 CE" ("Julian calendar") =
the Third Day (of the week) Aviv/Nisan 13 (per the official Jewish
calendar then in use) = the Third Day (of the week) Moon
#1[/Aviv/Nisan] 14 (per Yeshua's reckoning and per the Scriptural
calendar.)

Passover per the official Jewish calendar then
in use: Day of Passover = "the preparation of the passover"
(John 19:14 KJV) = from sunset "Tuesday night April 19" through
sunset "Wednesday night April 20, 18 CE" ("Julian calendar") = the
Fourth Day (of the week) Aviv/Nisan 14 (per the official Jewish
calendar then in use) = the Fourth Day (of the week) Moon
#1[/Aviv/Nisan] 15 (per Yeshua's reckoning and per the Scriptural
calendar.)

I find it somewhat
anomalous that you make such an issue about AD v CE...
...and yet you
use the day designations Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday etc...
...which are
never used anywhere in the biblical documents.

I also find it
curious that you have Passover (Nisan/Abib 14) falling on a Wednesday in
18CE...
...when Mark records the following...

Mark 15:42 "And
now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is,
the day before the sabbath..."

The Greek is
‘prosabbaton’ , literally the day before the Sabbath.

Luke
says something similar...

Luke 23:54 "And that day was the
preparation, and the sabbath drew on".

John's Gospel
leaves little doubt about what is meant...

John 19:14-16 "And it
was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth
hour:...Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And
they took Jesus, and led him away."

John 19:31 "The Jews
therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not
remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an
high day)"

These references indicate a seventh day
Sabbath/Passover coincidence.

So you are saying that Nisan 14 was a
Wednesday in 18 CE...
...and Nisan 15 was a Thursday.

I submit
that your calculation contradicts clear scripture...
...unless you
envoke a Lunar/Solar calendar reckoning...
...because in the Luna/Solar
calendar Nisan 15 was always a weekly Sabbath...
...because the weekly
Sabbaths always fell on day 8, 15, 22, 29 of the Lunar month...
...and
don't try the 'Sabbath' was only referring to a feast day
rubbish...
...it is very clear in Koine Greek that Sabbath means
Seventh day Sabbath.

You are attempting here the same theological
gymnastics that has produced the SDA's paradox...
...no wonder you have
been unable to give me straight answers on this forum.

__________________
- Jesus said, "In this world
you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." John
16:33 -

Last edited by Troubleshooter; 12-11-2009 at 12:38
AM..

Troubleshooter

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by Troubleshooter

Add
Troubleshooter to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#16

Elffinagain

Forum Member

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Texas

Posts: 3,641

Reputation: 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I find it somewhat anomalous that
you make such an issue about AD v CE...
...and yet you use the
day designations Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday etc...
...which are
never used anywhere in the biblical documents.

I also
find it curious that you have Passover (Nisan/Abib 14) falling on a
Wednesday in 18CE...
...when Mark records the
following...

Mark 15:42 "And now when the even was come,
because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the
sabbath..."

The Greek is ‘prosabbaton’ ,
literally the day before the Sabbath.

Luke says something
similar...

Luke 23:54 "And that day was the preparation,
and the sabbath drew on".

John's Gospel leaves
little doubt about what is meant...

John 19:14-16 "And it was
the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth
hour:...Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.
And they took Jesus, and led him away."

John 19:31 "The Jews
therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should
not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath
day was an high day)"

These references indicate a seventh
day Sabbath/Passover coincidence.

So you are saying that
Nisan 14 was a Wednesday in 18 CE...
...and Nisan 15 was a
Thursday.

I submit that your calculation contradicts clear
scripture...
...unless you envoke a Lunar/Solar calendar
reckoning...
...and don't try the 'Sabbath' was only referring to
a feast day rubbish...
...it is very clear in Koine Greek that
Sabbath means Seventh day Sabbath.

You are attempting here
the same theological gymnastics that has produced the SDA's
paradox...
...no wonder you have been unable to give me straight
answers on this forum.

In
the week of the passover there are TWO Shabbots, one in the MId point and
the other on the actual Sabbath.

Elffinagain

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by Elffinagain

Add
Elffinagain to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#17

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elffinagain

In the week of the passover there
are TWO Shabbots, one in the MId point and the other on the actual
Sabbath.

The "law of
contradiction" has again been activated. What "Gregorian / Julian"
day do you suggest the mid point Shabbot fell on. I.e. the Shabbot would
not be drawing on but already "be in force".

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#18

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

"Law of contradiction?" Please clarify, would you?

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythons

The "law of contradiction" has again
been activated. What "Gregorian / Julian" day do you suggest the mid
point Shabbot fell on. I.e.
the Shabbot would not be drawing on
but already "be in
force".

Dear
Pythons,

I am not sure how to perceive your words "law of
contradiction" and in what context? Perhaps you'd care to be a bit more
explicit?

And also, if pertinent, would you please clarify for me
how you would apply what you mean upon the crucifixion week as published
by myself on the web? Or,
would it not
apply?

Shalom,

Tree of Life (c)

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#19

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.O.L.

Dear Pythons,

I am not sure
how to perceive your words "law of contradiction" and in what
context? Perhaps you'd care to be a bit more
explicit?

principium
contradictionis: A proposition cannot be both true
and false or that a thing cannot both have and not have a given
property.

1 John 2,21: I have
not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know
it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOL

And also, if pertinent, would you
please clarify for me how you would apply what you mean upon the
crucifixion week as published by myself on the web? Or,
would it
not apply?

Original premise for the
2300 day / year prophecy requires a 31 A.D. Crucifixion for
validation. "A lie can not be a truth" therefore, the Investigative
Judgment requires the original time-line which validated it or it's simply
false.

The specific events ( in heaven ) happened at a specific
time, 22 October 1844 due to a very specific series of events and their
associated numerology, i.e. prophecy is confirmed by numerology. The
investigative judgment requires a 31 A.D. date for the death of Christ as
I understand it and it certainly appears that either A) The date was "a
lie" or B) The Biblical calendar was messed with.

In either case a
lie is a lie, thus having people who believe a lie is a truth perpetuate
that lie does not negate that they perpetuate, in fact, a lie. Therefore,
claiming that what was taught that has been confirmed to be a lie
is in fact a lie, it's not what has been called "present truth" ( a term
indicating a previous lie was truth to those who perpetuated it
).

Think of it as a conceptual machine that was, ( and still is )
claimed to be operating until it had been proven that the frame which
holds the whole machine together does not exist and never did exist.

Last edited by pythons; 12-11-2009 at 04:18
PM..

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-11-2009

#20

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Clearing a few misunderstoods re passover etc. ?

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Dear Trouble Shooter,

This time I
choose to make my comments by using red font within
my quote of your post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I find it somewhat anomalous
that you make such an issue about AD v CE...
...and yet you use
the day designations Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday etc...
...which
are never used anywhere in the biblical documents.

- I quite agree with you.

- My disclaimer re the
use of "A.D." is hereby specifically extended also to all other
names within the domain of the proprietors of the Julian and
Gregorian calendar, that is to "the day designations Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday...," "Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday," as
well as to "January, February, March, April, May, June, July,
August, September, October, November, December," and to any and all
hour, minute, second designations associated with the same
calendars, etc..

- Nonetheless, you will notice that that is
exactly the reason why I did put those week day names within
quotation marks.

- Further, you will notice that my use of
the words "All Rights Reserved" certainly are not excluding my
rights to quote words in common use or as used by
another.

I also find it curious that you have
Passover (Nisan/Abib 14) falling on a Wednesday in
18CE...
...when Mark records the following...

Mark 15:42
"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation,
that is, the day before the sabbath..."

The Greek is
‘prosabbaton’ , literally the day before the Sabbath.

Luke
says something similar...

Luke 23:54 "And that day was the
preparation, and the sabbath drew on".

- If you re-read my post a little closer, perhaps
you'll notice that my original answer to Pythons' question re
passover defines, not merely one, but two separate days. Perhaps, if
you had noticed that, you would not have ventured ahead of yourself
by assuming that either one of those days was also the day of
crucifixion, would you? For surely, you wouldn't assume that Jesus
was crucified anew on both of those days, would you? Perhaps you'd
find reason at this point to enter a comment or question of a
somewhat different nature and as a replacement for the
above?

John's Gospel leaves little doubt about
what is meant...

John 19:14-16 "And it was the preparation of
the passover, and about the sixth hour:...Then delivered he him
therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led
him away."

John 19:31 "The Jews therefore, because it was
the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on
the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day)"

These references indicate a seventh day Sabbath/Passover
coincidence.

- Notice that John 19:14
and John 19:31 (KJV,) are providing two distinct and separate
reasons for being a day of “preparation,” i.e. “the preparation of
the Passover” vs. “the preparation… the sabbath day, (for that
sabbath day was an high day.)” My impression is that the first one,
John 19:14, is to be associated with the Day of Passover, that is,
Aviv 14, whereas the second one, John 19:31, is to be associated
with the day prior to the regular weekly (non-lunar) Seventh Day
Shabbat, that is, to the Sixth Day of the week and not to any fixed
day of the month or year. In fact, it is my impression that there is
a gap in time before or after verse 16 representing a time of well
needed sleep for John after having stayed awake for the better part
of time from sunrise Day Two of the week [Monday morning] through
Day Four of the week [Wednesday afternoon.] After such a waking
period, approaching 60 hours, any firsthand witness would be liable
to crash, thus making for a pause or a gap in his record, or don't
you agree with that? John's subsequent record would resume following
that intermission and John 19:31, then, is, as I perceive it, a
reference to the Sixth Day of the [always non-lunar] week.

-
As you can see from the post of mine that you are commenting on, I
am placing the First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Aviv 15,
the day after the Day of Passover) in that year on Day Four (per
Yeshua's reckoning) and on Day Five of the week (per the official
Jewish reckoning of that time,) while certainly not on a regular
weekly Sabbath.

So you are saying that Nisan
14 was a Wednesday in 18 CE...
...and Nisan 15 was a
Thursday.

Yes, per the calendar reckoning
of the official Jewish authorities, but no, not per the calendar
reckoning of Yeshua or per the Scriptural
calendar.

I submit that your calculation
contradicts clear scripture...
...unless you envoke a Lunar/Solar
calendar reckoning...
...because in the Luna/Solar calendar Nisan
15 was always a weekly Sabbath...
...because the weekly Sabbaths
always fell on day 8, 15, 22, 29 of the Lunar month...
...and
don't try the 'Sabbath' was only referring to a feast day
rubbish...
...it is very clear in Koine Greek that Sabbath means
Seventh day Sabbath.

You are attempting here the same
theological gymnastics that has produced the SDA's
paradox...
...no wonder you have been unable to give me straight
answers on this forum.

- Considering
where you are coming from, that is, your assumptions, as misapplied
upon that which I am here making available for you to share and
enjoy, yes, your comments do make a lot of sense. And they do make
all the sense in the world to you, don't
they?

I am hoping that
my comments may be helpful in clearing up a misunderstood thing or two...

As already claimed in my original disclaimer, I cannot shoulder
any responsibility for your placing my words out of context, or for any
consequences thereof.

As always though, I treasure your
feedback. Thank you! - Without feedback there can be no dialog towards
ultimate peace and understanding between parties, can there? Thus, to me
all feedback is highly valuable - even when at times it
smarts!

Shalom,

Tree of Life
(c)

Private between the parties. Without recourse. All Rights Reserved. Tree
of Life ©

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-11-2009 at 09:33
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-02-2009

#21

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Please, Help me Find the Delete Post Button!

See my post above!

I accidentally
double posted and I can't seem to figure out how to delete my
post...

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-02-2009 at 02:17
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-02-2009

#22

pythons

Forum Member

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Seattle

Posts: 416

Reputation: 92

I don't think you can delete it, a MOD will
have to remove it. I've done it myself so don't stress about it....

pythons

View Public
Profile

Find More Posts by pythons

Add
pythons to Your Contacts

12-03-2009

#23

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Thanks Pythons!

Thanks Pythons!

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

12-01-2009

#24

Tree of Life ©

Forum Member

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Adamah Republic ©

Posts: 66

Reputation: 13

Seven in One...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

These are not really question but
statements and reflections...
...I am not sure what you want me
to comment on.

Dear
Trouble Shooter,

Please note that those seven items of that post of
mine, that you have been responding to, all belong together as one. The
seven items are a step by step process towards getting more light over one
important item . . .

I am sorry if I didn't make that quite clear
enough in my post that you are responding to

Shalom,

Tree
of Life (c)

Last edited by Tree of Life ©; 12-01-2009 at 02:08
AM..

Tree of Life ©

View Public
Profile

Visit Tree of Life
©'s homepage!

Find More Posts by Tree of Life ©

Add
Tree of Life © to Your Contacts

Page 8 of 8

« First

<

4

5

6

7

8

Edit Tags

Tags

karaite, lunar, sabbath, solar, william
miller

vBulletin Message

Cancel
Changes

Quick
Reply

The following errors occurred with your submission

Okay

Message:

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

Options

Quote message in reply?

Posting
Quick Reply - Please Wait

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools

Show
Printable Version

Unsubscribe from this Thread

Display Modes

Switch
to Linear Mode

Hybrid Mode

Switch
to Threaded Mode

Search this Thread

Advanced
Search

Rate This Thread

Excellent

Good

Average

Bad

Terrible

Posting Rules

You may post new threads

You may post replies

You may not post attachments

You may edit your posts

BB code is On

Smilies are On

[IMG] code is On

HTML code is Off

Forum Rules

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50 AM.

Contact Us - Christian Discussion
Forums - Top

Powered by vBulletin®
Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

copyright
CARM 2006,2007,2008,2009

Number of Page Loads since Jan 2008

DialUp Internet Providers